Chasing Intermittent Tiger Stalling: Checking Motorcycle Electrical Systems

I'm starting to think the stalling issues I'm experiencing on my Triumph Tiger might be an electrical issue.  The onboard computer isn't giving me any error codes, but when I rev it the lights on dash dim a bit, which shouldn't happen.

Motorcycle electrical systems are, like many aspects of motorcycling, a simplified and often more high maintenance version of what you see in a car where the extra space and size means you can make things modular, more self contained and cheaper to rebuild.

Instead of packing everything into an alternator running off the engine via a belt, motorcycles break things up to minimize drag on their smaller engines (belt driven systems suck a log of energy out of a small motor).  A bike will typically put a generator inside the motor on the engine crank so if the motor is turning over the generator is using magnets to generate electricity from the spinning motion.  This produces alternate current but, like cars, bikes generally use direct 12v current, so they need something to change the AC to DC.

Regulator/Rectifiers not only switch your power generation from alternating to direct current but they also regulate it so your battery is receiving a steady 14.5 volts on charge.  A failing reg/rec can overcharge or undercharge your battery.

The flakiness of my situation (sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't) suggests that this is a connection issue.  Before I start replacing parts I'm going to chase down all the connections, Dremel them clean and refasten everything properly.  If I'm still getting stalls and weird light dimming I'll test components one by one until I've isolated the flakey bit.

I teach computer technology as my day job and a flakey power supply (which also converts wall AC to in-computer DC) can produce some very unusual and difficult to track problems in a computer.  This feels like that.

There is nothing magic about how electricity works, but many people are really jumpy about it.  I've found that a rigorous, step-by-step analysis will usually uncover even the flakiest of electrical failures.  It will again here too.

RESOURCES

Analysing engine stalling in powersports motors 

How to know if your regulator/rectifier is failing

How a motorcycle electrical system works

Various motorcycle charging systems (full wave/half wave)

MOSFET regulator upgrade

The regulator/rectifier (#7) at the top is under the seat next to the battery.  I'm going to remove, clean and reinstall that.  

The big parts on a bike's charging system are astonishingly expensive!  Replacing an alternator with a quality rebuilt parts will cost you about $170CAD.  To do the rotor, stator and regulator/rectifier on the Tiger would cost me the better part of two grand Canadian!  Some of that might be old-Triumph price gouging, but it's ironic that all the online explanations describe motorcycle charging systems as built down to a price when it's clearly built up to one... on a mountain.  But there are options...

Triumph Tiger 955i: checking your motorcycle alternator and replacing a regulator rectifier

I tested the Tiger's alternator today. This is found under the round cover on the bottom left side of the bike.  I've lined up a MOFSET regulator/rectifier for the Tiger after some concise and clear advice from PSPB's FB forum where you always get clear advice instead of a bunch of internet mouth-breathers jumping in with what they don't know.

The Triumph OEM reg-rectifier isn't available and costs nearly $400 while also being an inefficient silicon controlled rectifier (SCR) shunt type reg-rectifier.  The one coming is a metal oxide semiconductor field effect transistor (MOSFET) based unit that is both faster and more efficient both thermally and in terms of providing steady voltage to the battery.  

With a new reg-rectifier coming, I took the advice on PSPB's FB forum and tested the alternator.  To make sure you're getting clean AC power you test the three wires going into the alternator for resistance (they should all show similar resistance between them).  The result was a steady 0.5ohms across all the connectors, which bodes well.

The final test is to make sure nothing is showing infinite resistance to ground on the bike.  Once again the alternator in the bike showed good wiring with no infinite resistance to ground on any of the wires:

The next step will be to wire up the new reg-rectifier when it gets here (should be early next week) and then see how things go.  The one I was able to find is wired for my specific Triumph (though Triumphs and Ducatis from the era both seemed to share the same unit).  With the new reg-rectifier wired up I should be good to go with the Tiger again and hopefully the (new over the winter) battery isn't having to carry the bike like it was and I won't have the stalling issues that have been plaguing me.

UPDATE

The reg-rectifier came in from Amazon right quick and I just installed it.  Having just brimmed the tank I didn't want to get the 24 litre monster off again to install it, and installing it with the tank in is tricky, but I managed it.

The kit came with replacement connectors, which is good because the ones on the bike disintegrated when I took them apart.  I was liberal with the dielectric grease and it all went together well.

I fired up the bike and it's now producing a very steady 13.9v and when I rev the engine nothing changes (before it would drop to barely 12.1v suggesting that while the motor was spinning above idle the battery wasn't being charged.  I didn't run the bike hot as I was in the garage with an impending thunderstorm going on outside but the readings I got suggest the strange electrics are resolved.

If you're experiencing regulator rectifier issues usually shown through an overcharging or undercharging (as was my case) battery, look up MOSFET type reg/rectifiers for your model of bike and save yourself a lot of time and money trying to chase down OEM replacements that simply don't exist.

The plan is still on to get the Tiger to 100,000kms by the time it turns 20 years old in 2023.

I wish Blogger weren't so stingy with headers or I'd alternate between the Tiger TMD logo and the new Concours TMD logo as I now have two functional and quite different bikes on the road.

1971 Triumph Bonneville Parts Research

Air Filter Pods for 1971 Triumph Bonneville:

https://www.classicbritishspares.com/products/amal-replacement-air-filters

https://www.ebay.com/itm/382380768469?chn=ps

https://www.speedandsport.com/product/air-filter-vokes-style-for-amal/

https://steadfastcycles.com/collections/amal-carbs?page=2

https://www.knfilters.com/air-filters/universal.html

Electronic Ignition Options

https://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/products/pazon-electronic-ignition-for-triumph-bsa-norton-twin-12v-motorcycles

https://www.motorcycleid.com/1971-triumph-bonneville-t120-ignition-system-parts/

https://meandthismotorcycle.blogspot.com/2010/03/installed-boyer-electronic-ignition.html

http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc16a.html

https://wiringdiagram.2bitboer.com/1971-triumph-650-wiring-diagram/

https://www.classicbritishspares.com/blogs/news/why-you-should-upgrade-to-a-podtronics-regulator-rectifier

Seat:

https://www.classicmotorcyclespares.com/index.php/default/dual-seat-triumph-bonneville-t120-oif-1971-us-spec-suitcase-catch-71-3634.html

Mechanical Sympathy

At the end of a twisty road, deep in the hills, the shop of my dreams...

courtesy of www.floorplanner.com, it's easy to play with, give it a whirl!

Since doing bodywork on my first bike, I've remembered how much I enjoy doing it.  The new shop will be a working paint shop with a booth and an oven capable of power coating parts.

PAINT

Open faced paint booth: Paint-booths.com

Price:  $2599

PAASCHE HSSB-30-16 30" Paint Spray booth

Price: $525

MECHANICS

DSA800SE-GL2 30L (8gal) 1600W dual 20/40KHz Ultrasonic parts cleaner
$850 

20 Gallon Heavy Duty  solvent parts cleaner
$115

Anderson Motorcycle Stand
http://andersonstands.com/workshop_stands.htm
700x2100mm
$2900

Industrial Air
60 Gallon Electric Air Compressor
24x27in footprint
$710

accessories (hoses, connectors)
$50

High Volume Low Pressure paint gun
California Air Tools SP-324 HVLP paint gun
 http://www.californiaairtools.com/spray-guns/sp-324/
$107
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/sp-324-hvlp-gravity-feed-spray-gun-with-air-regulator/998799

Lincoln Electric Handy Mig Welder Kit
$450

Lincoln Electric Cutwelder
$330+tanks $300







It's a work in progress.  Wouldn't this be a nice thing to retire into?

Prioritizing Work and Saving My Patience for What Matters

I was talking to Alan Seeley on email who now writes for Classic Bike (UK) Magazine. I told him about the s*** show that was trying to order used parts from eBay to keep the old Tiger in motion. He put me in touch with Chris Jagger and also put my issue into the letters section of the magazine. Chris's advice is that there are weak points on these bikes and as they age they get retired because of the lack of support. If you're going to take on a Hinkley Triumph, even a relatively recent one, don't expect the kind of support you'd get from other manufacturers.

I've sorted out '90s Fireblades and Honda never blinked when I was looking for parts. Suzuki is legendary with how they look after their engineering history, and Kawasaki has also been nothing but solid when I was working on older machines. I actually found it easier to find parts for a 53 year old Meriden Triumph than I have with much newer Hinkley machines. I've said it before and I'll say it again, for a company that markets on their history so heavily, Triumph vanishes when it comes to providing parts support, even for recent machines.

I took Chris's advice and went looking for backup used parts. This time around I found a throttle body that looked like it has spent some time in an archeological dig, and it arrived in a beaten up box but this time the seller padded it well and the plastic bits were intact. I cleaned and dismantled the unit and now have spare throttle bodies, fuel injectors and a complete idle control housing along with all the other odds and ends.

When I put the Tiger back together I tried putting pins in the broken wires on the fuel sender but it didn't work. I got a replacement fuel sender, but this time from a US eBay parts provider. I foolishly thought the shipping would be less but eBay surprised me with a surcharge on delivery that was 3x the shipping costs. Both the throttle body and the fuel sender came in on the same week. The throttle parts were much bigger and heavier and came from the UK with no surprise surcharge and the shipping cost was 30% lower. The moral here? Don't buy used parts on eBay if it's from an American based seller - you'll get caned by US Post surcharges. No so with UK suppliers.

The good news is the new part works well, but not without other teething problems. That age of this bike is really starting to show. The wires had broken in the sender unit but unbeknownst to me they'd also broken on the other side of the connector, so when I first plugged the new unit in I got nothing. After taking the tape off I discovered the broken wire, cut off the connector, crimped on new plugs and it works a treat.

While I was waiting on parts I pulled the valve cover and checked the valves just to make sure they weren't what might be causing the stalling and hesitation.

I'd last done this perhaps ten thousand miles and a couple of years ago - everything was still within spec. It's an afternoon to do it but worth knowing that the valves aren't the issue. That also gave me a chance to go over the seals on the airbox and pipes, clean and check the spark plugs, put a spacer on the throttle return to stop it stalling and wire in a bypass to the battery so it's showing 13 volts when running now (the wiring for the battery is byzantine and loses voltage over time). I also rebalanced the throttle bodies while I was in there.

With the new fuel sender in, I've had the Tiger out multiple times over the past week. It doesn't stall! It starts reasonably easily, Shows 12.8-13.2 volts when running (it used to hover around 12), and the throttle action is close to what it was before things went sideways.

How am I able to apply such patience to the Tiger? I sold the Bonneville!  Got what I paid for it and took a hit on some of the new parts I'd purchased, but with it gone I've got more room both in the garage and in me head to work on the Tiger.

The old Bonnie was interesting to work on during COVID but I'm still young enough to be motivated by riding rather than spending endless days in retirement hunting for expensive parts and installing them. Having two frustrating Triumphs was one too many, and since the Tiger's going to start demanding engineering rather than just mechanics if I want to keep it in motion, it was time to let go of my first attempt at (the eye wateringly expensive world of) vintage restoration. I like my projects to be more recent sidelined bikes - the '97 Fireblade remains a highlight (that I made money on!).

The Bonnie project had stalled out when I realized I was a grand in on new parts and nowhere close to being able to ride the thing. In retrospect I should have picked one of the other running options, but I went for the romantic Triumph option... and regretted it. An alternate reality Tim went for the BSA trials bitza and is deeply involved in vintage trials right now.

Links & Pics

Valve cover off on the Tiger. It's pretty easy to get into - other than having to wiggle the cover out the right side under the frame - which actually caused problems on the reinstall when the gasket didn't sit right and the bike barfed expensive synthetic oil all over the garage floor when I restarted it- but I'm not going to mention that in the blog.

With the Bonnie and bits gone, there is much room (both mentally and physically) to get on with keeping the Tiger in motion. The Kawasaki remains rock solid.

Used on Triumph models up until  four years ago - they don't make these any more.

I'm taking the broken one to bits and measuring all the bits. I currently have two plans: 1) digitally 3d model the part and look into 3d printing options with fuel proof materials. Nylon filament printing seems to be the fuel-proof material of choice. Lots of services out there. 2) is to build my own copper/steampunk version of this plastic bit using copper piping and fittings.

My pins in the connectors attempt with the old fuel sender didn't cut it.

I thought the C14 might have an oil leak, but it turned out to be the oil in the fairing after the spring oil change. After a thorough cleaning it's running like a (oil tight) top.

Here are some details on the voltage fixes for 955i Tigers. Running the wire from the reg/rec to the battery was straightforward:

Sasquatch voltage fix:

https://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php?topic=3843.75  is lost to the internet (those Hinkley Triumph support forums are dying out).

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/sasquatch-link-please.1267616/

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/tiger-electrical-upgrades.496199/

Reg/Rec update:

https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/charging-system-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.104504/

This is the Fuel Level Sender: Part Number: T2400526 that needed a swap...

Thanks to the massive shipping surprise it would have been cheaper for me to buy this new from a dealer (assuming they haven't discontinued it). Don't buy used parts from U.S. based eBay parts providers! It's not their fault, but eBay makes a mess of US/Canada shipping.

Triumph Tiger 955i Fuel Injector Cleaning

We're seeing temperatures in the low -20s these days and waves of snow passing through creating banks that are hard to see over.  To quote the Penguins of Madagascar...

The roads themselves are sanded and snow covered too.  We've got a major storm rolling in tonight that looks like it'll pitch another 48 hours of the white stuff at us.

At this time of year I tend to be in a mood as it's been far too long since I've leaned into any corners.  Compounding the lack of riding is the tricky nature of trying to find parts for the old Triumph Bonneville in order to keep that project purring along.  What parts there are pretty damned expensive too.  I'll get back into it soon enough, but in the meantime I thought I'd give the new (er) Triumph's fuel injectors a cleaning.

I've been in and out of the Tiger so many times that it's second nature.  The tank removal process (which is pretty complicated involving removing 4 panels and many awkward fasteners) can be done (blindfolded!) in about 10 minutes.

Last year I installed a new regulator/rectifier, but didn't install it properly because I didn't want to dismantle the whole lot.  The first job was to properly fasten it down.

The second job was to remove the fuel rail.  This is easy on the 955i Tiger (two bolts), but one was threaded (having a 19 year old bike as my regular runner does produce some headaches).  A cunningly installed second nut on the back of the threaded one had it all back together tight though.

For the fuel injectors I heated up the ultrasonic cleaner to 65°C and ran the vibrations for 20
minutes before cleaning them up with fuel cleaner.  The injector nozzles are very fine, so even a small piece of gunk getting past the fuel filter could cause headaches.

Once cleaned and sorted I press fitted the injectors back into the rail and reinstalled it back onto the bike.  The injectors press fit (there are thick rubber gaskets on each end) into the metal injector body on the bike too.  The only tricky bit was sorting out that threaded mounting bolt, but there is space behind the rail for a second nut and it did the trick.  While I was in there I cleaned all the electrical connections and put dielectric grease on the connectors to keep everything neat and dry.

It all went back together well and I had the tank back on and the Tiger back in hibernation before it knew what had happened to it.  I'm hoping the cleaning sorts a slow starting issue that developed after I solved the stalling issue last summer.

The old Tiger's fuel injection is one of the crankiest things about it.  Early mechanical fuel injection is famously, um, personality ridden.  The latest (delightful?) bit of character is having to lean on the starter motor for several seconds before it fires.  It used to fire at the touch of the starter, so I'm hoping to get that back again.

We're in the middle of semester turnover and I haven't had time to chase the old Triumph parts guys (who like to do things old school on a telephone), but that's next on the list of things to do before the weather breaks and I can lean into a corner again.