Showing posts sorted by date for query fuel injection. Sort by relevance Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by date for query fuel injection. Sort by relevance Show all posts

Saturday, 22 March 2025

Tiger Success (!) and first ride of 2025

 Last fall I took the fuel injection apart on the 2003 Triumph Tiger 955i. It wasn't fueling properly and was unrideable. I barely got any mileage on it last season, so I replaced every o-ring in the system and got a new fuel pump for it. It also got new throttle and clutch cables last year. If this last hail Mary attempt to resolve the atrocious fuel injection on this old bike didn't work, it was out the door.

The good news is it fuels nicely again for the first time in a year! I've still got to tune it and get the idle right, but it feels fantastic. Look back over the posts in December and earlier to see the details and where to get parts. If you're trying to keep an old Triumph 955i on the road (Triumph doesn't support them with parts any more), try this, it seems to work!

Battery needed a kick, but once charged up it ran like a top.

The clawed hands of winter still twist into the sky.


First chance to try out a new Shark helmet. My first and I'm not disappointed.

Still got snow on the borders.



The Grand River is swollen by the spring runoff - that's the camp ground underwater on the other side.


That grin is involuntary. The first time you lean into a corner after a long winter on four wheels is magical.

Amy knows how it feels...



Nice to have one road worthy. The C14 valve job continues when I have time, but work has picked up and I'm travelling again, so my weekends are seldom my own.

Here is the radiator loosened so I could get to the front cam sensor to change the o-ring. The Murph's Kit came with an oversized one. That was 40 minutes of sweat and swearing before I gave up and stepped away (again). This was a giant time suck at a time when I don't have a lot of... time.

Monday, 30 December 2024

955i Tiger Fuel Injection O-Ring Replacements


I found some o-rings at the local NAPA that come mighty close to the mystery sized ones that Triumph won't tell anyone what spec they are or provide any more, so I rebuilt the fuel injection rail with all new o-rings.

The chubby lower o-rings came from Amazon (I'm cobbling together parts from wherever I can). Sure would be nice if Triumph would release detailed specs on the older Hinckley Triumphs they don't support anymore.







While I was going over things I thought I'd have a look at the throttle sensor. There was some speculation (based on the similar 955i Sprint) that there is an o-ring that disintegrates which causes connection problems, but the Tiger doesn't have one. I know because I took one off one of the spare injector bodies I had and looked.



Will it work? I'm going to give it a go this week and see since it's weirdly warm out and all the snow has melted. What do I expect? It not to work, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

With the Tiger reassembled I figured I'd do the oil change I didn't get around to on the Concours 14 before I parked it for the winter, only to discover oil all over the side of the engine, so the bikes have been swapped and now I'm looking at a deep dive into the GTR1400. It looks like it might be the valve cover and since I haven't done the valves on it yet I'm going for it.

Sunday, 1 December 2024

Going for (yet another) fueling fix on the 955i Triumph Tiger


 It's a tricky thing finding the parts you need on a bike no longer supported by its manufacturer, but I keep getting lucky with quality aftermarket providers, in this case Quantum Fuel Systems out of California.

Ordering was easy, transport was astonishingly quick and transparent and I had the kit on hand less than 48 hours after I ordered it. I haven't had many better shipping experiences.

I went with Quantum because they had a full kit including hardware and a fuel filter (because none of that is available through the dealer). No instructions came with the kit but the pump, filter and strainer (all included in the kit) are an easy fit, especially when you've got the original sitting in front of you to work from. The whole thing took about half and hour from removing the plate it's attached to on the tank through to having it back together again.


This is where the fuel pump plate bolts to the tank.

The original pump (mounted in front), fuel filter (behind) and strainer off to the right.

Disassembly was straightforward. One of the nice things about an immersed system like this is that rust can't get at it.

The new bits installed, very straightforward.


You can see the difference in colour with the strainer. The old one was stiff as well as discoloured. With all new parts I'm hoping this magically restores the Tiger to regular fueling duties. I've seen some other comments suggesting that this is the silver bullet when it comes to old Triumph 955i fueling headaches.

It's all back in the tank again now. I'll get the bike back together and if the snow holds off take it for a spin, hopefully with a sense of resolution.



Update


Got it back together again and the new fueling bits have solved the starting problems (it fires on the button again) and it idles steadily again - a bit high even (but I'd been messing with the fuel maps to try and bump up idle speeds). I've since reinstalled the stock map and it starts and idles well.. But as with everything fueling related on this thing, one solution has caused another problem.

Previously the throttle worked fine but it wouldn't start or idle. Now it starts and idles but if you touch the throttle is stalls. My first thought is that this might be because the new throttle cable wasn't adjusted right, so I loosened it off and gave it the required slack the manual suggests. It still stalls when you touch the throttle.

The next thought was perhaps the new fuel pump and filters have messed with the throttle body synchronization (this bike is notoriously finicky about this). So, I took the fuel tank off (again - can't count how many times now) and rebalanced everything yesterday. We've got our first snows of the year now so I can't take it for a spin, but I'm hoping to have it all back together (again) this week and see if I've got a working Tiger.

If you want a sense of how perilous fueling is on 955i Triumphs, Classic Bike Magazine (my go to for genuinely helpful advice on keeping old bikes running since Practical Sportsbikes closed down and got folded into CB who now support a much wider range of machines) had a piece on the 955i Speed Triple (one of my all time favourite bikes). Page two had the enlightening piece to the right.

Fueling on these old Triumphs is a known headache. I've sold on bikes I've become frustrated with before and the problem hangs in my mind. Rather perversely, I need to figure out what's wrong with the Tiger before I sell it rather than just selling it on in this state. Not knowing what the problem is will drive me nuts. On the upside, if I become one of the 'very few people with experience of the Segem fuel injection', I'd be able to pick up a 955i Speed Triple that isn't working for a song.

Doing this after the Tiger, now *that* would be perverse!

Tuesday, 17 October 2023

Finding Your Way Around OEM's Giving Up on Parts Support: Triumph 955i Fuel Injection Seals

With Triumph giving up on my Tiger before I'm prepared to, I'm going to document the research and give details on what works when you're trying to keep a Triumph 955i's fuel system working by replacing old o-rings.

This has involved a crash course in o-rings and engine operating temperatures. As I work out a fix here I'll post details on o-ring sizing, what type works and include data on measuring the intake manifold at temperature.

It's been all Concours for the past few weeks while the Tiger is laid up. I'm hoping to get the fuel system sorted before the snows fly and I have to wait for next year.


Here are the measurements for the upper and lower fuel injector seals. The classy move by Triumph would be to open source publish the technical details for all the parts they no longer support so that the rest of us can get on with keeping the history of the marquee alive. With that in mind, here are the deets for the upper and lower fuel injector o-rings:

The thick ones go on top where the fuel injector meets the rail. My best guess is 3mm thick by 1.5cm outer circumference.


The skinny ones go on the bottom where the fuel injector slides into the intake manifold.

My best guess there is 2mm wide by 1.4mm outer circumference. 






Unfortunately, buying off the shelf boxes of o-rings isn't likely to get you anything that fits. The two below from Amazon didn't. This thing looks handy: https://www.allorings.com/O-Ring-AS568-Standard-Size-Chart.

The Tiger is a metric bike, so I'll work in mm (if Triumph went imperial on o-ring, what the actual f***). The thicker o-ring is 1.5cm or 15mm outside diameter (OD) and (I think) about 3.5mm cross section (CS). Looking at that chart, the #203 is a 14.58mm outer diameter with a 3.53mm cross section. That makes it mighty close. What would be nicer would be if Triumph just came out and gave us the precise sizes for these parts it has discontinued. Triumph?

The thinner one is also a 1.5 (ish) mm outer diameter (15mm-ish), but the cross section is thinner - perhaps two and a bit mm, and they have a 2.62mm cross section standard o-ring size. You'd have to hope Triumph didn't make bespoke o-rings for their fuel injectors, right? For the skinny o-ring I think I'd take a swing at the 2.62mm cross section / 14.43mm (1.443cm) size.

The All O-Rings site also has a good description of the materials you want to get your o-rings in. Nitrile and Viton are what I went with in the pointless Amazon order, but those are the materials you want in a fuel heavy application like this.

That's the configurator (right) - pretty straightforward, but it sounds like they manufacture each order, which probably won't make this a viable solution for someone just trying to keep their old Triumph on the road.

If only there was some kind of network of retailers who supported Triumph motorcycles who could order this parts to help their customers keep their older Triumphs rolling... some kind of 'dealer' network who understand how parts work and how to order this sort of thing in large enough quantities to make a profit while offering customers what they need.

RESOURCES

How hot motorcycle engines runs: https://blog.amsoil.com/extreme-heat-is-hard-on-your-motorcycle/

Buna (Nitrile or NBR) o-rings: https://sealingdevices.com/o-rings/buna-n-o-rings/

Viton vs. Nitrile o-rings: https://www.nes-ips.com/viton-vs-nitrile-o-rings/

All O-Rings https://www.allorings.com/

They have sizing tools! https://www.allorings.com/o-ring-kits-and-accessories/o-ring-sizing-tools

I'd prefer to use All O-Rings for the parts, but they might be a B2B type of thing, and I'm not a B.

Amazon's kits:


Turns out Amazon's shot-in-the-dark kits didn't work either. There's more to this o-ring sizing caper to come. I wish I could just 3d print the nitrile o-rings I was looking for (doesn't look like it's additive manufacturing friendly).

Saturday, 7 October 2023

Discontinued Tigers and Triumph Supporting its Riders

If you follow the blog you'll know I'm on a mission to get my 2003 Triumph Tiger 955i to roll over into six figures on the odometer. I picked up the bike with under forty-K on it and have done the majority of the now high miles on it. Over that time I've had an ongoing battle with the early fuel injection on the bike, but other than that it has been my preferred ride even as a series of other bikes passed through the garage.

Once again the fueling has gone off on the bike just as I was hoping to push it over the 100k mark in its 20th year on the road. If I lived somewhere where the weather wasn't trying to kill me for four months of each year this would be an easier goal, but trying to do it in Canada where the bike has to sit through minus forty winters and then navigate the frost heaved results in our too-short riding season? It's technical a flex I'm up for, but it's a shame that Triumph isn't.

I tried the usual solution of rebalancing the fuel injectors, but the bike is still stalling out and running rough. I checked the valves less than 15k ago so that isn't likely it. If it isn't throttle body balancing, which the bike is prone to needing, perhaps it's time to, at over 90k, to finally replace the o-rings and gaskets in the fuel injection system, but Triumph tells me that the majority of these parts are discontinued.

One of the reasons I enjoy the old Tiger is that it still catches eyes and prompts conversation when I'm out and about. Another reason I like it is that it can pretty much do anything (I've trail ridden on it and done multi-thousand mile two-up road trips too). It fits me better than anything I've ridden, is fun to chuck around in corners and has handled axle deep mud when I needed it to. The engine is full of character and pulls well even two up and, considering the miles it has done, the amount of TLC needed isn't unreasonable. I'd love to keep this bike going indefinitely, it's a shame that Triumph don't feel the same way.

I had a chat with the dealer (who isn't particularly local, it's a 170 mile round trip to go there physically - I usually get parts delivered), and they said that this is a problem with Triumph - they don't support their older machines. He then went on to say I couldn't use generic o-rings because the Triumph parts are strangely size specific. I'm going to try anyway because I really want to be able to jump on my old Tiger and ride.

Suzuki runs a successful vintage parts program so I'm not sure why Triumph wouldn't want to do the same to keep their bikes on the road, especially when they lean on brand heritage marketing so much.

Here's Nick Bloor's take on it:

Never standing still, always pushing to get the best from ourselves, for our riders. Building iconic motorcycles that celebrate our past while embracing the future through bold design, original styling, purposeful engineering and a genuine passion for the ride.
Always focused on delivering complete riding experience, creating bikes with the perfect balance of power, handling and style that totally involve the rider and bring out the best in them. 
This is our passion and our obsession. 
We are chasing the same thing as our riders THE PERFECT RIDE.
Nick Bloor
CEO Triumph Motorcycles

All good stuff, but maybe focus a bit more on celebrating Triumph's past, Nick? That includes the bikes your reborn Triumph have been making since the nineties. For some of us you created that perfect ride a while back.

When you market on brand history and provenance, shouldn't you support brand history and provenance? I'm coming at this hard because I want to believe... and keep my (not so) old Triumph rolling.

Wednesday, 15 February 2023

Winter Maintenance: Fuel Injectors on a 955i Triumph

 It's been a busy winter and I haven't gotten as much done in the garage as I'd hoped, but breaks in the gloom are beginning to appear so I spent the weekend getting the Tiger sorted and giving plastic welding my first go.

2003 Triumph Tiger 955i Fuel Injector Maintenance

The old Tiger is up at about 90k on the odometer. I did a deep maintenance a couple of winters back (swing arm out, everything gone over from the wheels up) and that seemed to solve most issues, except the fuel injection. These early electronic fuel injection systems in 955i Triumphs is touchy. What I've found that worked is to pull the injectors each winter and deep clean them in the ultrasonic bath, so that's what last weekend was.

Injectors out! I put the end without the electrical connector into the ultrasonic cleaner and give it 10 minutes at 60°C. Once out I clean them up and back in they go. No hesitation or idling problems since.

That vacuum run stepper motor (upper left) is what manages the idle control system - it's touchy! Make sure you've got good vacuum hoses (the black ribbed ones in the pic) and the gasket for the stepper motor is in good shape, or you'll be stalling... a lot. I'm sorting a threaded holder for the fuel injectors here.

Tank off gave me a chance to sort out the airbox, which I now seal with gasket material. At almost 90k, maintenance takes on jobs like rethreading bolts and gasketing tired airboxes to keep everything tight.

Found a stowaway on the airbox under the gas tank. Probably good luck?

Tiger is back together again and ready to take a run at 100k in it's 20th season.

How well did it work? We had a break in the polar vortex (it was -30° last week). In 5°C we went for a blast up and down the nearby river roads and it felt sharp. Doing that bit extra with an older high mileage bike when it comes to maintenance is the key to a happy riding season.