Cold/Hot Starting Challenges with Triumph 955i Tiger

 

https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/955i-daytona-speed-triple-difficult-cold-starting.974150/

look at the 'warm-up' table - just increase the enrichment factor at the lower temperatures - it makes a BIG difference

It looks similar to the Idle Table but the Idle controls Engine SPEED while the Warm-Up controls FUEL Enrichment

The position for the IACV is actually set while balancing - with an already warm engine, you balance the TB's and check the IACV position - it should be operating in the range of 30-35 steps when controlling at warm idle; if outside this range, adjust all the screws until you achieve both balance and IACV in that range. This puts the stepper in the ideal range for fastest closed-loop response.

changing the position in 'tests' does nothing while it is under active control - I've seen this claimed by others that this value will affect how it performs on overrun with closed throttle - my view is that whatever you change it to, it will be over-ridden in active control and if you go back after some time the number will not be at where it was previously set.

The other thing - recognize all that IACV does is adjust the air volume through the bypass ports - which controls engine speed - it cannot effect the fuel because there is no change to the TPS (unlike a Keihin system where the actual throttles are opening) - so the enrichment is does via the warm-up table.

https://www.triumphrat.net/threads/2003-triumph-tiger-955i-stalling.973651/

T1290006

Triumph 955i Stalling Issues.... Fixed!?!

 Facebook slapped me in the face with this this morning:

...so I went on a mission.

I pulled the tank (for the millionth time?) and set up the 955i Triumph Tiger so I could try many different things to test if the idle was working. Previously I'd followed the manual, but no longer!

I did the usual checks for vacuum leaks and I continue to suspect the overly complicated and no longer supported idle control system. After trying everything I'd tried before, I decided to go OFF BOOK.

If I can't fix this @*&%ing thing perhaps I can hack it! With the bike in test mode (plugged in and ready to run with all sensors attached), now is the moment to try some alternatives, so I pulled the entire idle control system and tried variations without it.

I plugged the servo back in because I figured leaving it unplugged might piss off the computer. I also removed the end of the servo so it wouldn't interfere with the airbox and then blocked off the airbox with Gorilla Tape.

I'd also done my due diligence by balancing the throttle bodies and making sure everything else was plugged in as normal. I also reflashed the computer through Tuneboy with the South African map I found a few years ago.

 So what happens when you remove the entire (problematic) idle control system in a Triumph 955i engine and simply connect the vacuum tubes out of the throttle body to each other?

Well, it seems to have fixed everything. The bike idles right where the computer sets it, the backfiring problem is gone and the motor fuels smoothly (though this is probably in large part due to that fantastic South African fuel map). Best of all, no more stalling.

That's the work around. I got some silicon tubing from Amazon along with some T connectors (maybe $30 all in?). The last round of Triumph replacement parts cost me north of $200 and when I had to start buying used parts (because Triumph has stopped supporting their own bikes) and getting them shipped over to Canada it cost even more... but this hack is thirty bucks in parts and I also have a pile of unused silicon tubing and T connectors left over. I attached the silicon hoses to the T connector and then into each of the throttle bodies, so it's a closed loop with no chance of leaks.

In the pic you can see the idle control servo (black object above the intakes on the left side). That's what it looks like with the plunger removed. It still moves up and down but has nothing to do with moderating vacuum between the airbox and the throttle bodies which is what has caused me years of headaches.

I'm so jumpy about the motor falling through idle and stalling (it's a perilous place to be when you're on the road on a bike that keeps cutting out), but this hack hasn't just solved the idle problem, it has also resolved all of the other issues. The bike idles steady right where I set it in Tuneboy, but more surprising is that the backfiring that had crept in is completely gone. The bike feels tight, full powered and like it did years ago. My only thought now is that it might hurt the gas mileage, but I'll keep an eye on that as I get some miles under me this summer.

It still starts like normal. I'm occasionally getting a high idle (3-4 thousand RPM), but as I rode it that happened less - like the computer was figuring out the new normal. I'm curious to see if not having that system in affects cold starting but that's not going to be an issue for the next four months, and I don't mind being my own choke if it means a steady idle.

Kawasaki Concours C14 1400GTR Valve Check Finished! (finally)

 It took the better part of four months over the winter thanks to lots of work travel stretching things out, but the C14 is back together again and runs like a top. The engine doesn't feel as tight, which makes sense as all the valve shims needed were to resolve the overly tight valves.

The Bay of Fundy near Saint John (latest work trip)

It still does the clatter when you first start it (it's to do with the cam chain tensioner needing oil
pressure to fully engage - it's part of the engine design). The bike has always done that but now that I've laid hands on the thing itself it's helpful in understanding how it all works. Knowing how complicated just the top of that motor is gives me a new sense of satisfaction hearing it run well.

I'm back from yet another work trip but managed to take the big Kwak for a spin last weekend and it pulls like it always has (which is to say like a nuclear missile). Today I'm going to finally do the oil change it was owed last fall and we should be on track for regular use this summer.

The question now becomes do I sell it on during the riding season or keep it having done this soul crushing maintenance job. Based on what I saw in there I'm betting I was the first to do it (at 45k kms). Considering the complexity of this job, I can understand why.

Part of that decision will come down to whether or not I've solved the Tiger's fueling issues. If I have, I might sell the big (and expsnsive to insure) Kawasaki and do the summer on a dependable Tiger, though the C14 is a much more comfortable two up appliance if anyone wants to come for a ride with me.

A confirmed fix on the Tiger's aging fuel injection system would make me consider going to one bike this summer.

Kawasaki Concours C14 1400GTR Valve Check Part 1 - getting in there

It took 2 sessions about about 5 hours to get
to the point where I can actually remove the
valve cover and check clearances.

This is not the work of an afternoon. To get into the valves on a C14 takes patience. In addition to the advice about staying organized and documenting the process, I'd suggest a 'move the ball down the field' approach. As long as you get a bit more done each time you'll get there, but don't be in a rush and expect to have to come back multiple times. With this approach I didn't get as frustrated as I sometimes do in the garage. It being the middle of Canadian winter with no chance to ride any time soon helps too. Nothing stresses me out more than watching one of my few riding opportunities each year pass me by because I don't have a bike ready to go (though I hope the Tiger is).

I'm finally at a point where I can actually remove the valve cover. I won't lie. Yesterday as I was wrestling the air suction valve gear out of the ridiculously tight space I was wondering who the masochist was who designed this and had a little day dream about cold cocking them.

It's cold in the garage when it's double digits minus outside, even with the heater on, so hand cramps were an issue as I worked stuck fasteners loose. Whoever was last in there tightened the frame bolts well past spec, and even the small bolts holding in the air suction valves were a fight, having to be turned out a quarter turn at a time with a hex key.

Here's the order of operations so far:

Getting Cylinder Head Cover Access

Fairings

I've been into them before for various reasons. They're complicated, but came off with a minimal of swearing.

Once I had them all off access to the valve cover became seeable, but so is the mad amount of plumbing that surrounds them. Getting the fairings off is the tip of the iceberg on this job.

Frame connectors

There are some easy to get ones that you can remove once the fairings are off. 12mm bolts and a 5mm hex that connect the motor to the back and front of the frame. Whenever you think that's enough, Kawasaki Heavy Industries overengineered another piece. This thing really is built like a nuclear sub.

With those off I took the coolant reserve tank out of the way (two 10mm bolts). So far I've gotten deep into this with just 10 and 12mm sockets and 5mm hex bolts (not counting all the fasteners on the fairings). The mechanical fasteners are considerately consistent (unlike Triumphs). I'm going to have to source other fairing fasteners as the cheapo Amazon ones I got all broke when removed.

There are two more frame connectors (because more of everything was how the Conours was designed), one on each side and held in by two 12mm bolts and a 5mm hex bolt. Whoever did these last tightened them to within an inch of their lives, but I got them out. The three fasteners are visible once you've got the fairings off, but once you've got them out the piece itself needs to be slid out from the plastic radiator shroud. I've been warming things up with the heat gun to prevent cracking as I bend plastic and rubber things.

The right side one is easy to access and if you've taken the fairings off, easy to remove. The pipe you see left of the top arrow is the air suction system. Getting that out is a right *@&#er.

The left side one not so much. Note the heat gun blowing warm air on the rubbers and plastics to make things easier to remove (helps with the electrical connectors too of which there are many).

With the frame pieces off it was a matter of removing the pipes and connectors that crowd the top of the valve cover. It's tight in there and even disconnecting electrical components was a real struggle with my non-Japanese sized hands.

You can't fit a 3/8 rachet and bit in that gap, so the air suction valve covers (which you can't even see in this because they're  buried under piles of electronics, coolant pipes and anything else they could stuff in there), need to be removed with tiny quarter turns with a 5mm hex key. Take your time, try not to get frustrated. You eventually get in there.

The ultimate goal it to get the rubber cover over the top of the engine out of the way.

First look at the valve cover, but lots of other gubbins have to come out before I could get that rubber cover folded out of the way.

Air Suction Valve

This consists of a rubber hose going up into the airbox above and connecting not one but two air suction valves (more is always better, right?). These are held in by 5mm hex bolts that nasty to get out - so nasty that I'm heading out to Canadian Tire to look at low profile rachet options (the 3/8 bit on the rachet won't fit in there and doing these by hands is painful).

With the air suction valve(s) - there are (of course) two of them, out you can see the cover, but that cam sensor in the middle of this pic has to come out too (8mm bolt holding it it).

Cylinder Head Cover Removal

• Remove fairings
• Remove Air Suction Valve (see Air Suction Valve Removal)
• Stick Coils (see Stick Coil Removal in the Electrical System chapter)

The stick coils for the spark plugs are in there tight too and require some careful convincing to come out. I'm probably the first person in here certainly since the bike started getting underused ten years ago and possibly ever.

With the Inlet Camshaft Position Sensor removed the valve cover was finally free and came off (out the right side) revealing the fantastically complicated top end.

Next up will be turning the engine around with a rachet and getting an idea of where the valves are in terms of clearances.

Going for (yet another) fueling fix on the 955i Triumph Tiger

 It's a tricky thing finding the parts you need on a bike no longer supported by its manufacturer, but I keep getting lucky with quality aftermarket providers, in this case Quantum Fuel Systems out of California.

Ordering was easy, transport was astonishingly quick and transparent and I had the kit on hand less than 48 hours after I ordered it. I haven't had many better shipping experiences.

I went with Quantum because they had a full kit including hardware and a fuel filter (because none of that is available through the dealer). No instructions came with the kit but the pump, filter and strainer (all included in the kit) are an easy fit, especially when you've got the original sitting in front of you to work from. The whole thing took about half and hour from removing the plate it's attached to on the tank through to having it back together again.

This is where the fuel pump plate bolts to the tank.

The original pump (mounted in front), fuel filter (behind) and strainer off to the right.

Disassembly was straightforward. One of the nice things about an immersed system like this is that rust can't get at it.

The new bits installed, very straightforward.

You can see the difference in colour with the strainer. The old one was stiff as well as discoloured. With all new parts I'm hoping this magically restores the Tiger to regular fueling duties. I've seen some other comments suggesting that this is the silver bullet when it comes to old Triumph 955i fueling headaches.

It's all back in the tank again now. I'll get the bike back together and if the snow holds off take it for a spin, hopefully with a sense of resolution.

Update

Got it back together again and the new fueling bits have solved the starting problems (it fires on the button again) and it idles steadily again - a bit high even (but I'd been messing with the fuel maps to try and bump up idle speeds). I've since reinstalled the stock map and it starts and idles well.. But as with everything fueling related on this thing, one solution has caused another problem.

Previously the throttle worked fine but it wouldn't start or idle. Now it starts and idles but if you touch the throttle is stalls. My first thought is that this might be because the new throttle cable wasn't adjusted right, so I loosened it off and gave it the required slack the manual suggests. It still stalls when you touch the throttle.

The next thought was perhaps the new fuel pump and filters have messed with the throttle body synchronization (this bike is notoriously finicky about this). So, I took the fuel tank off (again - can't count how many times now) and rebalanced everything yesterday. We've got our first snows of the year now so I can't take it for a spin, but I'm hoping to have it all back together (again) this week and see if I've got a working Tiger.

If you want a sense of how perilous fueling is on 955i Triumphs, Classic Bike Magazine (my go to for genuinely helpful advice on keeping old bikes running since Practical Sportsbikes closed down and got folded into CB who now support a much wider range of machines) had a piece on the 955i Speed Triple (one of my all time favourite bikes). Page two had the enlightening piece to the right.

Fueling on these old Triumphs is a known headache. I've sold on bikes I've become frustrated with before and the problem hangs in my mind. Rather perversely, I need to figure out what's wrong with the Tiger before I sell it rather than just selling it on in this state. Not knowing what the problem is will drive me nuts. On the upside, if I become one of the 'very few people with experience of the Segem fuel injection', I'd be able to pick up a 955i Speed Triple that isn't working for a song.

Doing this after the Tiger, now *that* would be perverse!

Taking a 955i Tiger from Triumph Engineers to Vintage Ownership

 I'm bound and determined to keep the old Tiger in motion. Triumph has abandoned me in
terms of parts support, but there is another way and Classic Bike Magazine shows you how to find it. I used to depend on Practical Sports Bikes for keeping these pre-classics in motion, but they killed it.

Rick Parkington writes a lot about the transition from standard manufacturer supported bike ownership to vintage bike ownership, but what he's really on about is keeping a bike in motion when the plug-and-play relationship with modern bike parts isn't an option any more. For a modern Triumph that happens about 20 years after they build it (I've had older Kawasakis and Hondas that kept providing parts, but I digress).

The biggest thing to get your head around is being ready to find alternatives that meet the needs you're facing rather than following the manual and hoping for parts to arrive that you can swap in. One of my issues on a 90k+ bike is slack in the machine. The throttle stop has worn down over many miles so I've been playing with putting a spacer nut on there.

When I had it apart today I used the grinder to try two different cuts of nut to get my idle back to where it should be. The middle one gives me perhaps a mm of recovered space on the pin that catches the throttle when it returns to idle at a point that doesn't make the engine struggle.

Another one of those vintage approaches is around battling fasteners. You can never assume something will come off as it should. In this case the fastener on the throttle casing on the handlebar creates swear words.

While I had it apart today I put in two new cables (throttle and clutch). Thanks to Rogx in Germany (who are still producing new cables for the 955i Tiger which was popular there), I got two new cables with all the hardware and it arrived early and with no headache (I love dealing with Germans!).

The clutch cable was fraying by the transmission so it was well past time. My thought is that if this one lasts as long as the first one (over 90k), then I'll be happy. I ran both cables next to the existing ones to get the runs right and then removed the old ones afterwards. It was a satisfying rainy Sunday afternoon in the garage.

No complaints (other than Triumph not supporting its own machines when they are less than 20 years old). These cables both did over 90k through brutal Canadian temperature changes.

A satisfying Sunday afternoon getting the Tiger sorted. I think another couple of hours and I'll have it back in motion for the end of the riding season here.

I wrote this as I was catching up on the Indonesian Grand Prix in MotoGP after a crazy (but awesome) week at work. I lost Marc after the Valentino incident back in 2015, but I'm starting to find my Marquez fandom again...

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: Patience with C14 Forks

 When I was younger I tended to struggle against time, but as I get older I'm finding that if I slow down and let go of that youthful mania I can see things that get missed and this makes me a better mechanic. Taking on the leaky forks on my 2010 Kawasaki Concours 14/1400GTR also seemed like something too complicated to get into in the garage after the much simpler right-way-up forks on the Tiger (which I get in and out of easily).

Like everything else on the Concours, the front forks are complicated. These would be the first USD (upside down) forks I've done after many right way up forks on dirt bikes and the Tiger, so I went looking for how-tos and was met with a wall of incompetence, both in video making and mechanical ineptitude. So bad were some of them that it made the job seem impossible, but it really isn't.

I finally found Coulda Shoulad Woulda's C14 Fork Seal video and it was just the thing. Yes, I'm starting you 25 seconds in because that's one hell of an intro:

Nicely edited and concise (other than that intro), oh that all youtubers took heed. After watching I believed it possible, so out to the garage I went... and was promptly beaten by the bolts on top of the forks which would not move despite a trip to Canadian Tire to buy the long 24mm socket needed to get on them properly. That socket promptly started rounding them. I suspect whoever was in there last didn't believe in torque wrenches.

Everything I needed for the job was $200 taxes
in on Amazon. The tools seem well made and
worked. The fork seal driver also came in
handy when clamping the fork on the bench.

I applied heat and kept at it, but they would not move, so after lots of sweating and swearing I
stepped away and emailed the local Kawasaki dealer, who I tend to stay away from because whenever I contacted them they give the impression that I've interrupted and annoyed them. A terse reply the next morning that was not forthcoming with the details I needed showed that their service department remains firmly of the mindset that they are doing me a favour whenever I pay them exorbitant fees for service. I finally got out of them that it's $375 to service forks out of the bike and they would only use Kawasaki parts so the seals I'd bought for the job I'd have to buy over again at their markup. A conservative estimate for the job would be $500 in service, parts and taxes, but probably more.

That took me back to the garage where, to my astonishment, the tops came off easily after a few sharp taps with a big socket and some more heat applied. If at first you don't succeed, step away and perhaps after cooling down you've already won. As Classic Bike says, 'heat and patience.'

With the tops loose I was off to the races. I applied some
intentionality to my process and decided to do a fork each day after work rather than trying to do them all at once. This paid dividends because the first fork was a learning process, and when I left it for the night I thought it over and the second one went twice as quickly with fewer problems. Taking your time and moving intentionally is an underappreciated skill in our manic, modern world.

The process of dismantling the forks is fairly straightforward, but requires some jiggery pokery around compressing the spring to get to the internals. Here are the order of operations assuming you've already removed the front fender and wheel:

• Loosen the fork tops while they're on the bike! This isn't easy as the handlebars are in the way. I removed them for access. I also found the metal quite soft. I went out and got a long 24mm socket but it made a mess of them. A well placed vice grip while clamped on the bench did the job better.
• Remove the fairing plastic cover over the front wheel
• Undo the plastic cover at the top of the fork tree (three 10mm bolts) and remove the horn as well which is attached to it
• Loosen the lower fork clamps
• Loosen the upper fork clamps
• Slide out the forks (this was also a pain in the ass - I ended up using a long screwdriver to gently open the clamps a bit to let the forks drop

That gets you to the point where you can start working on the forks themselves.

• Undo the loosened fork tops (if you're luckier than me and the cock womble who was in there last didn't tighten them to death)
• Install your fork compression tools. There are holes in the plastic spacer at the top for you to put a rod in and use the axle mount at the bottom for the other rod

It looks complicated but this is just the fork compressor clamp and a bottom rod provided in the Amazon kit being compressed with rachet straps. 

•  With the spring compressed you will see the nut at the bottom that holds on that top piece
• Pull up on the top piece and you should have just enough space to slip the spring holder piece (also in the Amazon kit) in place. This allows you to loosen the bottom nut and spin off the top

• With that off you can release the rachet straps and remove the spring
• Remove the tube from the centre of the unit. It's fragile so put it somewhere safe and then don't forget to reinstall it (don't ask)
• Empty the oil into a container that lets you see how much is in there. Be sure to work the internals to get everything out

The side with the leak (on the right) had less in it, but both were low. There is supposed to be 550ml of oil in each fork. The dark green stuff on the left looked to be completely different to the brown stuff on the left. I'd guess whoever tried to get into these last couldn't get into one of them and just serviced the one they could - which is nuts!

• Separate the outer fork from the inners
• This lets you pop off the outer seal
• The inner is held in by a retaining ring that's easy to pop out
• Ease the fork seal out of the tube (I applied some heat as the old ones were rock hard - this softened them up a bit and made removal easier

• With everything cleaned up, slide the outer seal on the inner fork making sure it's the right way around
• Install the inner seal in the large (upper because these are USD) fork tube. Doing this while it's separated is much easier than trying to hammer it in when they're attached. I had no trouble getting the inner fork tube on once it was installed (the holes in the inner shaft are chamfered so sliding them on is straightforward
• Don't forget to install the retaining ring after you've got the inner seal in (letter side down because these are USD - the 'open' side should be facing the oil).
• Install the inner fork in the outer with new seals
• Put the spring back
• Put the plastic bit on top and rebuild your spring compressor (don't forget the metal cap)
• loosen the nut on the threaded inner rod and use a matching bolt to give you something to pull it up with when you've got it back together
• Compress it all down again with the ratchet straps
• Pull the top using that bolt you put on and slip the metal piece to hold it in place
• Remove the bolt you used to make it reachable and tighten the nut on the inner threaded piece that's held by the tool you slid in to hold it compressed
• Insert that inner rod you put aside earlier (no, really, remember to do that)
• Screw on the fork top piece and tighten to the lower nut to it
• Double check that you've put all the bits back (inner rod, metal cap on top of the plastic top piece)
• Press down on the compressor that's in the holes in the plastic and slip the retaining metal tool out
• Release the rachet straps
• Put 550ml of fork oil in each. I used 15 weight Maxima
• Work the fork to get any bubbles out (I also let them sit overnight to let things settle)
• Spin the outer fork onto the now attached fork top threaded piece
• Reinstall the forks. The lower bolts said 30 Nm but they still gave me headaches when one sheered in the tube. I stepped away and sorted it out the next day when I wasn't annoyed.

This seems like a handful but if you work your way through it one step at a time it all makes sense. The first fork took me a couple of hours to take my time going through. The second one took less than an hour. Once you've done this once you'll feel able to do it again. Give Coulda Shoulda Woulda's video a watch and you'll have what you need to get it done... and be patient!

Yep, that's a broken lower fork clamp bolt sheered off inside the housing. I ended up getting it out by getting needle nose pliers on the end sticking out and spinning it out that way. This job fought me at every step, but it's all back together with matching (clean) oil in both forks and everything one tightened (to spec) not too tight. One tight, not too tight...

When things went wrong (and the did... often) on this job, I got myself to a reasonable stopping point and stepped away for the day. When I came back the seemingly insurmountable problems (stuck fork tops, broken bolt in the lower clamp) all seemed to have answers.

The old seals were rock hard. I'm curious to see how nice the forks feel with the new ones.

Vice grips did a better job on top fork removal than the specially purchased long 24mm socket did. Applying heat was easy in the vice and the seal driver tool was handy for clamping the fork off the bike.

Removing the handlebars didn't help with loosening the tops of the forks. Hat and vice grips on the bench finally did the trick. I'm going to try the handlebards without the bar risers for a while and see if it feels ok.

***

I've had the bike out a few times and the feel in the front end is fantastic. I'm getting feedback like I've never had before and it's leading to a much more enjoyable ride, both when taking corners and navigating poor pavement; transformative isn't too strong a word.

When I put it back together I dropped the forks in the front tree about 1/4 of an inch, so the bike feels a bit more on the nose. The other thing I did was take the risers out of the handle bars. These had me more upright in the seat, but I left the 'angle wedges' in and the steering feels more immediate than it did without really affecting my geometry. 

This servicing has been well worth it, but so has the opportunity to reconsider the geometry on the front. Right now the GTR1400 is as perfect as I've ever had it, and just as it's about to hit 45k.